tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post3626831806121073987..comments2024-03-21T19:12:11.065-07:00Comments on Every Day Is Like Wednesday: Three questions I had after reading Icon: A Hero's WelcomeCalebhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01391759187396994380noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-23334792877344092932009-12-12T18:18:34.345-08:002009-12-12T18:18:34.345-08:00At a blacks in comics panel at a convention years ...At a blacks in comics panel at a convention years ago when Milestone had just been launched, a young black guy in the audience argued that Icon wasn't really black precisely because of his origins as a (permanently) shapeshifting alien. To which one of the Milestone founders--Michael Davis, I think--retorted, "He's been black longer than you have."Marfisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16424608674577208124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-54952869212998391742009-12-03T12:59:58.947-08:002009-12-03T12:59:58.947-08:00Esteban:
But Superman's "whiteness"...Esteban:<br /><br />But Superman's "whiteness" doesn't necessarily equate Earth's "whiteness", or at least Kryptonians in general.<br /><br />Sure Krypton has a variety (or at least two others) of different colored people, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a white person's experience and history on Krypton is exactly the same as a white person's experience on Earth, even if they share the similarity of being the majority skin color in certain areas.<br /><br />Being Caucasian on earth is probably at least slightly different from being Caucasian on Krypton. The real reason why Superman would be considered white shouldn't be because that was his primary appearance, but because of the way he was raised. Just like your case for Icon, he lived the experience, and the fact that he looked the part only served to help that, but shouldn't be the primary justification for his assuming that role.<br /><br />That being said, I doubt Superman will take a pro-Caucasian sided stance any time soon not just because there really isn't any since it's not a minority (and thus it'd be tacky anyways) but because of his ideals and ethics it probably wouldn't matter to him. I personally would argue that even if Superman was a minority, he would still stay out of race issues but that's another discussion.Darius Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133470442986393073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-9196202020680307902009-12-02T18:49:35.366-08:002009-12-02T18:49:35.366-08:00I was going to say something like what Esteban say...I was going to say something like what Esteban says. The "he's not black because he was born blue" seems to me pretty decisively outweighed by "he lived more than a century as a black man in America."<br /><br />In any case, he's not "just a blue-skinned alien disguised as a black man," because the disguise isn't one he can take off. And once Raquel discovers the truth, she doesn't start treating him as an imposter or a poser.<br /><br />I guess the answer is: since race isn't a biological fact about which there's some truth of the matter, but a social fact, the only really relevant measures are whether the person's treated as a race-member by fellow-members and by non-members. Augustus is treated as black by both black people and white people; I think that's about all there is to say.<br /><br />Unrelatedly:<br />Back when the Morrison JLA was prompting boring online debates about what "iconic" meant, I kept wanting to quote the exchange between Augustus and Raquel from issue 1.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-48966671206138632202009-12-02T07:12:41.470-08:002009-12-02T07:12:41.470-08:00Well, the Superman argument is a little more compl...Well, the Superman argument is a little more complicated since Superman was born white, while Icon was born blue... on the other hand, Icon has lived and been treated as a black man for 120 years, through the Reconstruction and Jim Crow and Civil Rights, so... I figure his experience alone is justification enough to be able to call himself black.esteban138https://www.blogger.com/profile/16710963218674106511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-25945716807600984422009-12-02T06:51:59.887-08:002009-12-02T06:51:59.887-08:00He's black. Because partly it's a joke: on...He's black. Because partly it's a joke: only an alien would be a black Republican. Buh dump ba. <br /><br />Maybe that's just my sense of humor. When it came to this title, I always found the debate over who the real title character is more interesting. To me, Raquel is the real Icon.Johannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12178614343035674476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-90754715451416022422009-12-02T02:07:06.284-08:002009-12-02T02:07:06.284-08:00the point you mention could be quite a good one fo...<i> the point you mention could be quite a good one for addressing concepts of race as internal identity vs. social experience. </i><br /><br />If theres one thing <b>Icon</b> does as a book its that. Taking a deeper look at racial, social, culutural, etc issues using super-heroes was a central part of the whole <i>Milestone</i> line...LurkerWithouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03540770911478925992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-30305240050704032882009-12-02T01:10:09.500-08:002009-12-02T01:10:09.500-08:00He theoretically creates a superhero role for a bl...He theoretically creates a superhero role for a black actor to play, at least.<br /><br />Certainly, surface appearance is enough for most Earthlings to assess him by race, for whatever assessments they might make. Even people who know he isn't 'really' black might have to face their own idea of 'real blackness', and that they have one.<br /><br />I haven't read this series, so I don't know whether it's in a style that supports much subtext or character study, but if it were, the point you mention could be quite a good one for addressing concepts of race as internal identity vs. social experience. If not, eh well, guys punching stuff is fun.Honeybunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00511123806127425973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28855039.post-17560826495856521382009-12-01T22:25:09.067-08:002009-12-01T22:25:09.067-08:00I think it's precisely because they look like ...I think it's precisely because they look like their race and creed, that it's simpler for them to represent said background in stories.<br /><br />I mean people may sometimes forget that Superman is an alien, but they're always going to think of a white man with black hair when it comes to visually picturing him. Also, let's not forget that one "Beyonce as Wonder Woman" hubbub/uproar.Darius Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133470442986393073noreply@blogger.com